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Post by lisa on Aug 12, 2007 17:55:04 GMT -5
[SH 2 Spoiler Warning]
Alright, so this has been bugging me for a while. Out of the serious endings you can get,
'Leave' 'Maria' 'In Water'
Which one is considered the Good ending? I don't think that Konami meant for there to be a good ending because they would have labeled it so. This is the first Silent Hill, and I believe the only one, that has endings subject to interpretation.
I know that the 'Leave' ending doesn't have much to it, suggesting that the Konami staff might had preferred the other endings more? But this ending is the hardest to get considering the stuff you have to do in the other ones...so wouldn't it be the best? Though in SH4 Frank Sunderland mentioned something about his son going missing, suggesting one of the other endings true? (or is that something my mind made up?)
But on that same note the 'Maria' ending doesn't seem to give James a proper send off because it suggests that the poor guy goes through another loop with Maria, doomed again to stalk silent hill forever ( a sort of self punishment maybe?).
So by default that means that the 'In Water' ending should be the one that's considered the good? I'm not so sure about this. Didn't Mary say she wanted James to be happy? By doing what he did...that would just end everything. She wanted him to live. And doesn't it seem like this ending is the easiest to achieve?
My point? I wanted to know which ending you guys liked the best and why, just curious about what everybody liked.
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Post by Cain on Aug 13, 2007 12:25:56 GMT -5
Well it can only be be two ending if you go by what Frank Sunderland said in SH 4. "In Water" makes the most sense simple because Frank says that James and Mary never returned from Silent Hill so he could have killed himself. But there is an ending you forgot and it is called "Rebirth" (available only during a replay game) will also end with James killing Maria, but the final scene shows him in a boat with Mary's body, planning to revive her using secret occult objects the player can collect throughout the game. So this ending can also be true. It really hard to say which one is true but I think out of all of them the "UFO" is the truest lol.
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Post by lisa on Aug 14, 2007 8:43:21 GMT -5
Oh yeah! I was sure i'd forgotten one.
I dunno, i'm so torn between which ending fits properly.
For me it is a tie between the 'In Water' and 'Leave'
Maybe ever the latter because she did say she wanted him to be happy, how can he be happy if he's dead? She wanted to forgive him and let him live on with his life, not give in to the guilt deep within his mind.
Ya know? *has turned into Wakka from FF10*
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Post by masqueradia on Aug 14, 2007 14:48:45 GMT -5
I have a firm belief that the "Leave" ending is true.
My reasoning is this.
"In Water" does have some accuracy to it, but in James state of mind through the entire game, it does seem quite a drastic 180. It just doesn't seem like James really wants to die. If he did, he had plenty of chances. ((Even with Angela, he's determined not to die. "I would never... kill... myself.")) Yes he needed to be punished, but what good is punishment if you get let out so easily as to run your car into the Lake?
"Maria" is kinda my "50/50" bet, because how the hell is he gonna explain where she came from and who she is when he gets out of Silent Hill? Would she even exist outside the Hill? This one seems kinda more like "Mary's Revenge Ending" though, cuz of Maria's implied condition. Personally, I don't think Mary would want James to be with Maria because she's like a substitute and you can't subsitute a human being, no matter how badly you wish it.
"Leave" is my bet because not only does it cover the "punishment and atonement" bases, but it also kinda sums up Mary's last will and testament. Laura is taken care of and James spends his life making up for what he did to Mary by being the good father figure to Laura. Again, he couldn't go back to Ashfeild because people would start poking around. ((Depending on what you believe, it's possible Mary was in "the trunk of James' car." implying that it was a week before the game started that he killed her. It might not have been three years, but I think she's been dead longer than a damn week. I believe it takes a lot longer to abandon a burned Hotel and it be in the condition it was in than people seem to think. With all the money and lives and insurance involved? We're talking three week clean up, easy. With the kind of money that would've been involved, there would've been police guards all over that place. And that's with Mary being accounted for, which according to many, she wasn't. If it had been one week, there would've been no way 1 person would get in there, let alone three.))
I don't wanna hear that "Laura's not real" stuff. I think Laura is real, because she leaves imprints on the world around her. ((The cat on the foggy window and locking the door on James.)) Maria never did. It looked like she might have unlocked a door, but, who's to say James wasn't turning the handle the wrong way? It's the only time she has any effect on the world around her that James doesn't pointedly force. Like the refridgerator in the hospital. If she couldn't open it, he was at a dead end. He needed her to, like he needed to be punished and reminded. Maria refused to go into the bowling alley. Why? Because Laura and Eddie probably couldn't see her as James did and would probably go postal, wondering why a monster was following James. Laura didn't have that problem. Maria's existance in James' mind depended on him believing in her and seeing her as "the new Mary". That image would be shattered if someone told him, "Dude... your girlfriend looks like one of those things with the four legs..."
((BTW, did anyone else notice Mary calling Maria "Marie" in the Maria ending before the boss battle, or is that just a glitch on my game?))
As for the "Rebirth Ending"... yeah... he definately couldn't go back then... that would be kinda hard to explain... "Oh, yeah... Mary's back, dad!" O.o Oooh boy...
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Post by lisa on Aug 15, 2007 7:45:50 GMT -5
I agree with your feelings on the "Leave" ending. But don't you think that there should have been so much more to the ending than there was? Grah i'm still torn between endings, though leaning more towards the "Leave" one because I have an optomistic personality.
This is the first game that the ending is affected by the players actions. If a player acts in negatives ways, such as running on little health for a while and examining Angela's knife, of course he's going to follow the "In Water" ending. Probably seeing all those depressing notes and how James doesn't seem to be doing so well, that person would think that the depressing ending was a good thing for James.
However, I am positive that the makers of the game wanted the player to pick James's fate. Judge him as seen fit. If someone believes that it is a crime to kill any living soul than James will be staked guilty and have to atone, a life for a life. The player is given the power to be Mary's will, though most don't know it until they either look up the endings online or finish the game.
That's probably what we all like so much about Silent Hill 2, how the player can choose to interpret the game any way they deem fit. The ending that a player deems fit is a direct reflection of their morals and personality.
But, you guys knew that already, right? ;D
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Post by masqueradia on Aug 15, 2007 17:02:20 GMT -5
Can I say something without people jumping down my throat? << >>
Uh... I have a theory for two that most people might not like...
You know how in the first one the world wasn't Harry's nightmare but Alessa's? Well, I've never heard this theory hashed out, but I kinda started thinking of it after getting two of the three main endings.
I was kinda thinking... a lot of this could actually be Mary's manipulation of James... like, it's actually Mary's nightmare for James... it's not really James' nightmare at all. Mary spent three years in a super depressed/anxious state... in a hospital... not unlike Alessa.
It doesn't necessarily change the storyline, just the mood and main character. I mean... if you think about it, Mary needed Maria as much as James did... to remind him... and she could've put PH out there to punish him...
I don't know... ^^() Maybe its silly... but I kinda like the idea that the reason he's so obsessed with finding her is that everything in her world for him kinda reminds him of the whole reason he's there... like... "I wonder if this is how Mary felt when... oh hey... this reminds me of Mary... Mary... it feels like you're here with me..."
^_^() Over thinking? Me? Never... hehehehe....
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Post by lisa on Aug 16, 2007 15:52:54 GMT -5
Oopsies. Didn't mean to sound like I was killing your idea, I just like bouncing ideas off of people as well as counter ideas.
This is the first website I've been able to discuss complex silent hill ideas on. ^.^
Alessa's nightmare? That's an interesting theory. It would make sense in a way because Alessa's aura is all over silent hill because of her horrific experience. I suppose the same thing could happen to Mary as she manipulates James through his travels. Perhaps she was testing the James within her dream as well? Ooo, I really want to think about that idea now.
Then, if you don't mind me asking, how would you analyze the endings of Mary's 'dream'? Yeah I realize that this question is kinda vague and I had a hard time forming it in my mind so hopefully it makes sense.
(not being rude, just curious) *is self-conscious about offending and or pressuring people in the wrong ways*
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Post by masqueradia on Aug 16, 2007 20:08:27 GMT -5
Oh no! ^_^- It's not you. I wanted to make sure it was ok to discuss "not part of the plot" theories. I mean, it never comes out and says anything that suggests that Mary could be responsible for all this, but there are little bits and peices that subtly suggest it...
Like the writing on the wall in Neely's Bar... did you happen to go into that camper and read that note? "Waiting for you at Neely's?" It's like a bash in the head with the truth, you know? It's like, "You're half way here and you haven't even started remembering me yet? How dare you!" At least... I count the Nightmare town as halfway... the prison and hotel never take very long to go through...
As for the "end's" of Mary's dream?
"Leave" - James is forgivable. He explains himself to her fully and asks her forgiveness and carries out her last will and testament. Laura, who was called to this town by Mary as well, not her nightmare, but her memory, gets the thing she wanted most and that Mary promised. "I wanted to adopt you if things turned out differently." She knew she was going to die, so what was going to turn out differently? James. And in the end, he confessed, even to Laura, and they leave together, tied together in Mary's memory and kept together into the future.
"Water" - James cannot bring himself to be without Mary. Her nightmare was too much for him and he cannot bare the shame and guilt of being without her now that he knows the truth. With Maria's purpose fulfilled, he finishes his story where the whole thing began, and where it can begin again in the next life; Toluca Lake.
"Maria" - Maria is Mary's gift to James. A gift that he must prove his love and devotion with before he can finally rest his mind at ease. It's her way of realizing the wish she made. To be with James, the man who truly made her happy, through the end of her days. Lets hope he doesn't screw it up this time.
"Rebirth" - ...this one makes James look a bit like Dahlia... ^^() Crazy... obsessed... and very very devoted to the reason he came... To see Mary. Only Mary. The REAL Mary. Now what woman who spent so much time alone wouldn't love that kind of adoration? James' nightmare is only beginning. I always believed that the things you "brought back" were never the same as the ones you lost... but who knows? I kinda found this one difficult to decipher the more I thought about it... I mean... if she is reborn... wouldn't that make James a pedofile? ^^()... surely she wouldn't be reborn 30 some-odd year old Mary? ^^()
((I had to do this. Please don't shoot me.))
Dog - Mary had James fooled all along. She'd already been reborn as a cute little dog and had managed to bring him to Silent Hill to be reunited with him at long last. ^_^-
UFO - ...I can't ... not with a straight face... XD
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Post by lisa on Aug 19, 2007 20:16:06 GMT -5
Wow, sounds like you put some thought into it!
I agree with you on that, the points fit.
*not much else to say*
And, now that you mentioned it, I have to speak about the UFO ending;
Wasn't that priceless? I think I died watching it.
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Post by masqueradia on Aug 20, 2007 10:04:03 GMT -5
^^() I was just supporting it as a possibility.
Schrodigger's Cat and all that.
And yes... XD I have a game saved at the Hotel Lobby with the music box completed just so I can see that ending whenever I want.
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